Injuries
As a dinosaur, and someone who was playing high level ultimate in the early 90's, I find occasion to notice differences in the game between now and then. Howevever, now i want to talk about something on a related topic, injuries. I don't know if other elite teams (although based on the ECC preview, DoG is no longer an elite team, or at least out of the running for this year's title) have this issue, but for the last few years, we have had significant problems with injuries depleting our practice numbers. And I have been trying to prod my fossilized brain, but I really don't think we had these issues back in the 90's (injuries, not low numbers).
In 92 and 93, we went the large team route (merger of Titanic/Earth Atomizer), and had large numbers. After we blew it up following the 93 debacle and started DoG in spring of 94, we made a conscious decision to have low numbers. In order, we had 19, 19, 19, 20, 20, and then the final merger year of 25. And I recall that we rarely had less than 7 on 7 (although I expect that Jim will correct me on this point). One thing that we did do was invite some fillers to flesh out numbers for us, people who were willing to practice with us even though come tournament time they wouldn't be with us. Not sure if they thought they might slide on the team that way (which is not unreasonable), but it didn't happen.
What I'm trying to bring this back to is injuries. Since 2000, we have had at least 24+ guys on the team every year (it seems). And yet we still often still have difficulty fielding a good practice. At least for the last few years, we have been consistently sporting 3-6 guys on the sideline at practice, nursing some injurie or another. And these injuries almost always appear to be soft-tissue/internal/muscle/indefinable/describe as you will as opposed to a broken bone or something obvious. The only obvious one this weekend was Matt still recovering from nose surgery.
Observation #2 is that the injured players are usually young. I'm still trying to figure out if that is because DoG in general is now really young, or if there is some other rationale. I know as I have gotten older, I have started to stretch more (I NEVER stretched until probably mid to late 90's), and if I ever do some sort of muscle injury (insert joke here about how I would actually have to run to injure myself), I promptly make an appointment with Russ Robar, our unofficial team massage therapist, who we have brought to Nationals the last few years. The man is a miracle worker. He got me back playing the next day after a dehydrated calf pull suffered two years ago against Johnny Bravo on the BRUTALLY hot day that saw like 4 people drop in that game.
The one thing that I find completely intolerable is when somebody on our team pulls up lame with some muscle aggravation, and then expects to work it out themselves, and ends up missing a week or two of weekend practices (or tournaments). I think it is finally happening less frequently now, and people are starting to see Russ or somebody else more quickly, but the season is short enough, and I don't care who you are, physical intervention from an EXCELLENT massage therapist will make ALL the difference, and will shorten recovery by an unbelievable amount of time. Apparently one issue is that Russ usually isn't covered by insurance, but how much money are you already spending on the sport that you can't see him one or two times to take care of a muscle pull. And if it is going to take longer than that, then your muscles are already *(&(*#&$ed, and you were going to miss the season anyway.
So, are there more injuries now than there were 10 years ago (for those that can actually comment)? And if they are hitting the younger players, why? Less preparation? Overtraining? Bad training? Stupidity? I don't know, but it is definitely affecting our team.
In 92 and 93, we went the large team route (merger of Titanic/Earth Atomizer), and had large numbers. After we blew it up following the 93 debacle and started DoG in spring of 94, we made a conscious decision to have low numbers. In order, we had 19, 19, 19, 20, 20, and then the final merger year of 25. And I recall that we rarely had less than 7 on 7 (although I expect that Jim will correct me on this point). One thing that we did do was invite some fillers to flesh out numbers for us, people who were willing to practice with us even though come tournament time they wouldn't be with us. Not sure if they thought they might slide on the team that way (which is not unreasonable), but it didn't happen.
What I'm trying to bring this back to is injuries. Since 2000, we have had at least 24+ guys on the team every year (it seems). And yet we still often still have difficulty fielding a good practice. At least for the last few years, we have been consistently sporting 3-6 guys on the sideline at practice, nursing some injurie or another. And these injuries almost always appear to be soft-tissue/internal/muscle/indefinable/describe as you will as opposed to a broken bone or something obvious. The only obvious one this weekend was Matt still recovering from nose surgery.
Observation #2 is that the injured players are usually young. I'm still trying to figure out if that is because DoG in general is now really young, or if there is some other rationale. I know as I have gotten older, I have started to stretch more (I NEVER stretched until probably mid to late 90's), and if I ever do some sort of muscle injury (insert joke here about how I would actually have to run to injure myself), I promptly make an appointment with Russ Robar, our unofficial team massage therapist, who we have brought to Nationals the last few years. The man is a miracle worker. He got me back playing the next day after a dehydrated calf pull suffered two years ago against Johnny Bravo on the BRUTALLY hot day that saw like 4 people drop in that game.
The one thing that I find completely intolerable is when somebody on our team pulls up lame with some muscle aggravation, and then expects to work it out themselves, and ends up missing a week or two of weekend practices (or tournaments). I think it is finally happening less frequently now, and people are starting to see Russ or somebody else more quickly, but the season is short enough, and I don't care who you are, physical intervention from an EXCELLENT massage therapist will make ALL the difference, and will shorten recovery by an unbelievable amount of time. Apparently one issue is that Russ usually isn't covered by insurance, but how much money are you already spending on the sport that you can't see him one or two times to take care of a muscle pull. And if it is going to take longer than that, then your muscles are already *(&(*#&$ed, and you were going to miss the season anyway.
So, are there more injuries now than there were 10 years ago (for those that can actually comment)? And if they are hitting the younger players, why? Less preparation? Overtraining? Bad training? Stupidity? I don't know, but it is definitely affecting our team.
posted by Alex de Frondeville at 6:33 PM
19 Comments:
Weightlifting is one way to prevent injury that I don't think many players fully take advantage of. Weight training--when done right-- improves the strength of your tendons and ligaments, improves bone density, improves strength of important stabilizer muscles, and improves coordination.
Last year on my college team, we made weight training twice a week mandatory. For the first time in recent history, we didn't suffer any muscle, ligament,, or tendon injury that kept any player out for more than a game. One guy got his nose broken and we had a freak car accident that decimated our D line, but that was it for major injuries.
Perhaps the injuries are the result of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. Kids today keep hearing to do track workouts and plyometrics and weight training, but they're largely doing it on their own or being led by someone who is equally unqualified to set a schedule. As a result, their fragile bodies wither under the stress, or they overstrengthen certain areas while ignoring others, creating imbalance.
Kids today....
my experience has been the opposite. when i was a young hired gun in the mid 90's, we didn't do a whole lot of injury prevention. if you got hurt, someone on the sideline always had a hypodermic of cortizone, or a handful of amphetamines, or a bottle of strong painkillers. then again, i only played a few times in the preppy upa series--mostly i was the token american playing over in the blue collar european leagues, where we'd routinely have to fight rugby and football players for fields. (most of the time we won.) my personal opinion, of course, is that those of us who grew up in the reagan years are simply tougher than these clinton-era pussies who are beginning to fill today's rosters. it's the entitlement society. i also think the erosion of traditional family values has made today's players much more injury-prone. again, back in the day, i could come home from practice knowing that my wife would have my contrast bath ready; these days, guys on the team are talking about taking their wives' names. it's madness.
JCo: magic.
I think there were some people nursing injuries and such before, and not always John-Bar and Coop. There were two years where DoG wouldn't have had 7s for the last practice before nationals had I not gone (and where's MY ring, hunh?). With a larger roster, people may not push as hard to play at practice because them sitting out doesn't ostensibly affect the team's ability to run a scrimmage.
Relating to Jim's point about poor training, I was discussing this with Erik, and we were thinking that it is only now that use of good training methods is starting to catch up with the growth in athleticism in the sport.
We had people nursing injuries, but they were almost always the same people (Coop, John-Bar), as you say. Basically, people that probably had no business still playing the game at that point anyway because of these recurring injuries. However, it seems like it is always something (and someone) different these days. I would be inclined to agree with Jim's analysis. It would be interesting to note if any team, college or otherwise, has really had a training regimen created by a professional who really understands the sport and the physical demands it makes.
>It would be interesting to note if any team, college or >otherwise, has really had a training regimen created by >a professional who really understands the sport and >the physical demands it makes.
To keep harping on my college team....
This is exactly what we did. We hired the College's varsity strength and training coach who works with the soccer, lacrosse, basketball, and football teams, to help us design our workouts. I sat down with him and described ultimate as best I could, noting what I thought to be the major muscle groups used. He then wrote out a 6-week weight training program for us and taught us how to stretch right, how to lift without hurting oneself, how to taper our workouts throughout the season, etc, all for the bargain prcie of $5 a person.
If anyone's interested in the workout he designed for us, check it out:
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~ultimate/mens/team/training.htm
As a self-admitted sports-science geek, I need to change my shorts after reading your "why train" page. Its refreshing to see the principles of modern S&C applied to ultimate. Most ultimate players I know go to the weightroom and just do the "spring break exercises" (ie curls and lat pull-downs). I designed an ultimate training program similar to that one about 5 years ago and was laughed off the field by my more "traditional" teammates. I still get funny looks when doing clean and jerks and plyos in the student weightroom at lunch.
Michael Baccarini could probably add some valuable info to this discussion, as I think his ultimate teams have been doing this sort of workout for a few years.
I think genetics play a big role. The people injured fairly often on our team are: Ariel, McCarthy, Olivier, Dylan, Colin, you, and Sam.
Then the people who are always on the field: Fort, Jim, Doug, Ben, JCo, Casey, and Funboy(prob more, I just don't remember). It doesn't seem like there is a huge training difference btn these groups or we can clearly say the first group half asses it or trains too hard or anything. I think it is just random genetics and some people don't have the body type that can stand up to this sort of sport week after week without getting some sort of ailment.
-Kelvin
There is a variety of possible explanations:
1. Young folks are smart about not practicing when they're partially injured, for it could only make matters worse.
2. Young folks these days are wimps. They'll sit out practice due to a hangnail.
3. DoG used to win and people actually *wanted* to practice with that team.
4. People play the sport harder these days, hence more injuries.
I have my ideas....
young people are soft as church music. read this review http://tinyurl.com/8z6ph to get a refreshing perspective that says that all these injuries are... well... i mean, they do call them 'soft' tissue injuries.
it's funny, it basically just says that it's all in your head, because of unresolved issues.
basically, sarno says, 'suck it up, wuss'
(ps, it's a really good book)
The people injured fairly often on our team are: Ariel, McCarthy, Olivier, Dylan, Colin, you, and Sam.
From your limited perspective, you may think I'm injured fairly often, and yet I have missed roughly 4-5 games over the last 15 Champies due to injury, including 1.5 in San Antonio '93 (came back for last pool play and semis) , and one each of the last two years, and have never missed more than a weekend of practices due to injury, and this only in the last 3 years because of an ongoing tight right calf, which will be with me through the end of my career. Other than that, I have been remarkably injury-free since '90. I guess I would have had more injuries if I had actually run, but that is a discussion for another time.
I wrote this on my blog a couple months ago:
I was asked this weekend how I've been able to avoid injuries. I said that it was good genes and knowing when not to push it. But I should have also added that I generally got in shape by playing sports. Weight training is good, and I should have done more of it, but it can lead to unbalanced bodies, and maybe it is done at the expense of playing and getting in shape and developing your sports mind. And I played a lot of ultimate. There's nothing like 100 good cuts in a weekend to get you in shape.
--
Maybe the college kids do, but the younger players on DoG don't seem to play as much ultimate, and when they do, it's all on 19 person squads. Maybe it's like with pitch counts in the majors, where some think that the reason that pitchers can only go 100 pitches these days is that they're trained to go 100, and never get a chance to build up their endurance on the field.
Young DoGs, how many tournaments a year do you play in, and how many of those are non-DoG teams? Let's see, from age 27-34, I played in 12-16 tournaments a year total, about 5 of them non-DoG, and most of those were more strenuous than the DoG tournaments.
name: funboy
age: 26
status: not hurt (although my right shoulder has been bothering me recently when I lift my arm above my head…but not worth doing anything about)
tournaments played in and will hopefully play in from nationals 2004 – nationals 2005:
1. get ho ho ho – non DoG. Coed 4/3. 7 guys
2. terminus – some DoG, motley not. 12 guys
3. white mountain open – DoG. 10-12 guys
4. NJ invite – DoG. 13 guys
5. boston invite – DoG. 25 guys
6. potlatch – non DoG. Coed 4/3. 8 guys
7. Colorado cup – DoG. 20 guys
8. summer league tournament (only 2 games this year due to practice) – non DoG
9. DC tournament – DoG. 20 guys???
10. labor day – DoG. 22 guys???
11. sectionals – DoG. 24 guys???
12. regionals – DoG. 25 guys???
13. nationals – DoG. 25 guys???
I would say this is a pretty normal year for me as far as the number of tournaments are concerned.
Regarding young vs. old - there is likely a selection bias - i.e. people that couldn't stay on the field in their 20s are less likely to be playing in their 30s.
Kelvin, I am sure genetics plays some sort of role in injuries, but I would guess that injury history (admittedly not independent from genetics) plays a larger role. The people you listed have 1 or at most 2 problems that constitently nag them, rather than bodies that just break down.
Also, I get injured more often than Rob? Not taking offense, but 10 Nationals (college and club) and 15 Regionals, never missed a game.
you must also differentiate between being hurt and being injured.
One you can play...the other you can't. I've been playing hurt the past few years, though I could easily have said I was injured.
Another aspect is that people do not have the same pain tolerances...ie, some people are just wimps...that is why there are Michael Jordans and Joe Schmoes
For me, the differentation between hurt and an injury was whether you were going to make your injury worse by playing, ie., hamstring pull, or potential season-ending injury. I remember back in college when I was running back to the dorm one night in flimsy flip-flops feeling quite toasted, I stumbled on the sidewalk and totally shredded my feet and toes, bleeding for hours, and we were hosting a huge tournament the next day. When I got to the fields next day, I could barely walk, my feet were in so much pain. I ended up playing through the pain, because it was not an injury that was going to get worse or cause more/permanent damage (besides getting bloody). I also played with two broken fingers at college nationals in '87. Once they were in the soft cast, they weren't going to get any worse (although they DID hurt every time I caught the disc). Similar injuries that could be played through would include charlie horses, nasty bruises, some broken bones, etc. Some muscle pulls just can't be played through because they keep getting worse. Others are just sore.
Wicks,
You forgot to mention Safdie.
Why didn't you just tell these people, "But we don't NEED you at Regionals, we need you to be a practice dummy. Strap 'em on."
amazing. an injury topic draws ultimate players like flies to honey... the only thing frisbee players like talking about more than the good old days, is how hurt they were in the good old days... I think that players like to have something nagging them... then they can conquer that, in addition to defeating foes... it's like, the proverbial...'no shit, there i was. just me and billy bob, 3 cones, and a couple cardboard cutouts for decoys. our back against the wall. and of course, i had that niggling little spleen leak that used to trouble me... ya know, before i got my orthotics. Billy bob was complaining about his strained arugula, but he was always kind of a sandbagger. I was hurting, but i put the team on my shoulders and threw 5 goals to myself down the stretch to ice it. heh, heh, and the party. I'm pretty sure U2 was playing, and it got crazy. well it was a late one, and the next morning, as we were lacing 'em up, I didn't think there was any way we'd beat earth brother. But I slapped some duct tape on the gunshot wound, and stufffed an old dirty sock into the somewhat larger exit wound (hey, I said it was a raging party), and we went out there and took it to em. I plinko'd off a cardboard cut out of captain kirk, swimmy swam, got it back, and jacked it to billy bob. He tipped it, but luckily, I was on the run..."
Meanwhile, billy bob wheels up in his chair, "Is luke telling you about the time I put him, and 5 non english speaking malnourished garment workers on my back and carried them to victory... he always gets it wrong... it was reallll hairy, no shit, and there I was..."
why do i waste my genius in the comments...
where is the chesapeake write up?
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