Nationals, Day 4
Didn't watch it. However, it doesn't sound like I missed much, just another turnover-fest, only that it would have aggravated me that we could have been in that game and won it also. I'm not sure how many other teams out there feel that way. Obviously, Sub-Zero feels that they could/should have beaten Furious in the quarters, but they would have had the difficult games of JAM followed by Sockeye. And Sub-Zero still plays a game that is more similar to the west coast than the east coast.
What's funny in all this is that with most teams moving to the spread stack, it positions DoG favorably in the future if DoG keeps the vertical stack (with a little side stack thrown in to keep teams honest). And if spread continues to trickle down to college, there will be few teams out there who practice against the vertical stack on a regular basis.
Now both Jim and I have already mentioned this elsewhere, but for much of this season, DoG was rarely throwing the long pass, much less completing them. For whatever reasons, whether people weren't cutting, or we would turn over a few early ones to take us out of that game, I had real concerns going into Nationals about our long game, and whether people were going to be able to just front us wildly and shut us down as a result. Fortunately, my concerns were baseless, as we went up top quite a bit, both on the offensive and defensive teams.
When DoG throws long, they are throwing to a cutter who is already open and leading him into the space, but the lane is there, the thrower has the throw, and it is usually a vertical throw of 30-50 yards hitting the cutter in stride. It is NOT the 70 yard huck that the guy has to run down deep in the endzone, or run 40 yards downfield AND another 30 yards cross field. Watching other teams put up a 70 yard bomb to a cut(ter) who was just starting to make his move, wasn't necessarily open yet, and sometimes was already stopping his cut, was comical. The end of the JAM/Bravo game was a perfect example. End of an important game, and yet both teams are turning it over MULTIPLE times a point. It literally seems like a gift to a more possession-oriented team like DoG provided we can take advantage.
I also thought we mixed up the vertical (the default) and the side stack pretty well when people gave us problems, or switched to a force that made us work a little harder than usual. Do the other teams really HAVE multiple sets anymore? Or is really just different play calls off the spread. OK, this time you cut from the far side to the near side while I cut deep to clear out space, then I'll cut back underneath to catch it from you.
Finally, the GRANT defense worked SHOCKINGLY well. Considering it was something we only experimented with the weekend before nationals, it was worth MORE than it's weight in gold. However, I'm not going to explain what the D is, since it is still a useful tool...
What's funny in all this is that with most teams moving to the spread stack, it positions DoG favorably in the future if DoG keeps the vertical stack (with a little side stack thrown in to keep teams honest). And if spread continues to trickle down to college, there will be few teams out there who practice against the vertical stack on a regular basis.
Now both Jim and I have already mentioned this elsewhere, but for much of this season, DoG was rarely throwing the long pass, much less completing them. For whatever reasons, whether people weren't cutting, or we would turn over a few early ones to take us out of that game, I had real concerns going into Nationals about our long game, and whether people were going to be able to just front us wildly and shut us down as a result. Fortunately, my concerns were baseless, as we went up top quite a bit, both on the offensive and defensive teams.
When DoG throws long, they are throwing to a cutter who is already open and leading him into the space, but the lane is there, the thrower has the throw, and it is usually a vertical throw of 30-50 yards hitting the cutter in stride. It is NOT the 70 yard huck that the guy has to run down deep in the endzone, or run 40 yards downfield AND another 30 yards cross field. Watching other teams put up a 70 yard bomb to a cut(ter) who was just starting to make his move, wasn't necessarily open yet, and sometimes was already stopping his cut, was comical. The end of the JAM/Bravo game was a perfect example. End of an important game, and yet both teams are turning it over MULTIPLE times a point. It literally seems like a gift to a more possession-oriented team like DoG provided we can take advantage.
I also thought we mixed up the vertical (the default) and the side stack pretty well when people gave us problems, or switched to a force that made us work a little harder than usual. Do the other teams really HAVE multiple sets anymore? Or is really just different play calls off the spread. OK, this time you cut from the far side to the near side while I cut deep to clear out space, then I'll cut back underneath to catch it from you.
Finally, the GRANT defense worked SHOCKINGLY well. Considering it was something we only experimented with the weekend before nationals, it was worth MORE than it's weight in gold. However, I'm not going to explain what the D is, since it is still a useful tool...
posted by Alex de Frondeville at 7:43 PM
11 Comments:
grant = kring?
You would think so, but the grant was actually a real defense, which we ended up resorting to maybe half of the D points in the last few games. The kring was just a phantom D we tried to fool the ultimate world with back when we were winning (and it worked for awhile).
ah, yes, those were golden days for r.s.d... truly a time when the e-literary gods walked the earth...
now, i believe most posts are actually done by cell phone or while playing xbox live...
so DoG could have won ?
What is more east coast style and what is more west coast? My impression (and I did not play much against the west coast) is that all coast teams like to jack it more than we did. West Coast from anywhere. East Coast teams like to jack it with their cutters (at least the good ones).
Although we still do it a fair amount, it seems like Jam, Furious, and Bravo were relentless. Hmmmmm, all those team beat us.
Even when we played y'all at Colorado, you guys were definitely a little riskier with the disc on the deep shot then we were.
I think the good old Zero days we were definitely a "chicks dig the long ball" team. Now, we are more possession oriented. (Or not possession oriented like the last couple points of Furious).
I guess, I think we play more east coast then any east coast team!
And to think we would have been in the finals... Of course, we would have had to beat Jam who beat us 15-7 in pool play.
Congrats on getting back to the semis. Hopefully, we can join you next year.
I think you are tending to mix up JAM's O and D squad and their philosophy when they have the disc. Same with Sockeye. Furious doesn't seem to have the same philosophy, in general.
I'll leave you to figure out what I mean by that.
Additionally, our O had 1 callahan, one drop, and one easy throw away within the first 5 points against Furious, none of which were over 10 yard throws. In retrospect, wouldn't you have rather jacked it with a chance for a goal and made furious go 70 :) Basically, I don't think our O is as wide open as you tend to believe it is...though more so than DoG, of course.
$
Cash, if you're saying that the D looks more for the big strike, similar to what Sockeye, and maybe Kaos did when we played them (at least earlier in the season) where we expect a huck within the first couple of passes after a turnover, then I'll agree. But even then, there are few teams out there, and I guess I'll take Timmy at face value about Sub-Zero, that are not looking to set up the huck as their primary option. You only have to look at the end of a game like the JAM/Bravo game. It was comical, whether the teams were on O or D. OK, the offense is a little more conservative, but I would say that the long throws are thrown more to matchups than what DoG does. With us, the player usually needs to be clearly open and in good position (at least for the O...) before the throw goes up.
Oh yeah, and good times at Mr. Biggs. Too bad it was Saturday night and not Sunday night...
Tim, when I say East Coast, at this point it probably only really means DoG now. Ring has been big play for awhile, Potomac, Metal, Doublewide and Pike are clearly big play, I didn't see Vicious, BAT, and that doesn't leave any other teams from Central further east. Obviously I'm generalizing somewhat, but I think the underlying truth is there.
And, hell yes, DoG could have won. Well under 50% chance, but the Furious game was not indicative, as we were tied at 9 until both I and another offensive handler went out, and the first Sockeye game went 15-13, and we had NUMEROUS opportunities to tie it up at 13s and 14s. We never played JAM all year, and wouldn't have made a difference, because we wouldn't have seen them. Like I said before, no expectations going in about making the quarterfinals, much less winning the tournament, but in retrospect, an opportunity lost, and I can attest these opportunities don't come along very often, especially now.
alex, you're a 40 something year old dude with some kind of diploma from some sort of overpriced college with an overvalued reputation and a good grad school. you should not be stomping around yelling things like 'hell yeah' like some kind of dukes of hazzard fan, or cartman yelling cheesy puffs.
sigh.
maybe kd was right, and boston is just some sort of over glamorized cow town.
i'm glad i live in a truly cosmopolitan center.
Though I play 40 something, I'm actually still only 38 my blond friend. Don't forget the masters from MIT...
It is hard to imagine my non-playing peers of the same age doing what we do in any other sport of choice. And I don't say 'hell yeah.' Actually, it was more like 'yeah DoG!' and then walk off the field.
As for Boston being a cow town, why do you think the streets are so screwed up? It's because they just paved the cow paths instead of redoing the streets.
I agree that most teams are putting it up these days. I initially thought it was just b/c we were not that good at deep d, but then they keep doing it.
V. cycle is very huck oriented. They are all college kids after all. That and hammers. In our game, both teams threw an absurd amount of hammers.
I was kind of lauging when you said East Coast b/c I thought the same thing (that you guys were way more conservative compared to other atlanticers).
Potomac never met a huck they didn't throw.
Cheers, congrats on the semis. Hope you will still be around in open next year.
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